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Cacao melaporkan
#22152: "Add Turn Undo"
#22152: "Add Turn Undo"
rejected: Pemaju berpendapat bahawa ia bukan idea yang baik atau nisbah kos / manfaat terlalu tinggi
22152
Apakah laporan ini berkenaan?
Apakah yang berlaku? Sila pilih pilihan di bawah
Cadangan: Pada pendapat saya, perkara berikut akan sangat meningkatkan pelaksanaan permainan
Apakah yang berlaku? Sila pilih pilihan di bawah
Cadangan: Pada pendapat saya, perkara berikut akan sangat meningkatkan pelaksanaan permainan
Sila semak apakah sudah ada laporan mengenai subjek yang sama
Jika ya, sila nyatakan untuk laporan ini. Laporan dengan undian yang paling diberikan PRIORITI!
| # | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
|---|
Penerangan yang terperinci
• Sila salin/tampal mesej masalah yang anda dapat lihat di skrin, jika ada.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Tolong jelaskan apa yang anda ingin buat, apa yang telah anda buat dan apa yang telah terjadi
• Apakah browser anda?
Mozilla v5
• Tolong salin/lekat teks yang dipaparkan dalam bahasa inggeris dan bukannya bahasa anda. Sekiranya anda ada screenshot bug ini (amalan yang baik), anda boleh gunakan Imgur.com untuk muatnaik dan copy/paste pautan itu di sini.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Adakah teks ini tersedia dalam sistem terjemahan ? Jika ya, adakah ia diterjemahkan selama lebih daripada 24 jam?
• Apakah browser anda?
Mozilla v5
• Tolong jelaskan cadangan anda dengan tepat dan ringkas supaya semudah mungkin untuk memahami apa yang anda maksudkan.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Apakah browser anda?
Mozilla v5
• Apa yang dipaparkan pada skrin apabila anda disekat (Skrin kosong? Antara muka permainan? Mesej ralat?)
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Apakah browser anda?
Mozilla v5
• Bahagian peraturan yang mana tidak dihormati oleh penyesuaian BGA
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Adakah kelanggaran peraturan boleh dilihat di ulangan permainan? Jikanya ya, pada langkah berapa?
• Apakah browser anda?
Mozilla v5
• Apakan tindakan yang anda mahu lakukan?
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Apa yang anda cuba lakukan untuk mencetuskan tindakan permainan ini?
• Apa yang berlaku apabila anda cuba melakukan ini (mesej ralat, mesej bar status permainan, ...)?
• Apakah browser anda?
Mozilla v5
• Pada peringkat mana semasa permainan , masalah itu berlaku (apakah arahan semasa permainan tersebut)?
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Apa yang berlaku apabila anda cuba melakukan tindakan permainan (mesej ralat, mesej bar status permainan, ...)?
• Apakah browser anda?
Mozilla v5
• Tolong jelaskan masalah pemaparan. Sekiranya anda ada screenshot bug ini (amalan yang baik), anda boleh gunakan Imgur.com untuk muatnaik dan copy/paste pautan itu di sini.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Apakah browser anda?
Mozilla v5
• Tolong salin/lekat teks yang dipaparkan dalam bahasa inggeris dan bukannya bahasa anda. Sekiranya anda ada screenshot bug ini (amalan yang baik), anda boleh gunakan Imgur.com untuk muatnaik dan copy/paste pautan itu di sini.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Adakah teks ini tersedia dalam sistem terjemahan ? Jika ya, adakah ia diterjemahkan selama lebih daripada 24 jam?
• Apakah browser anda?
Mozilla v5
• Tolong jelaskan cadangan anda dengan tepat dan ringkas supaya semudah mungkin untuk memahami apa yang anda maksudkan.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Apakah browser anda?
Mozilla v5
Laporan masa lalu
Ogos 5 th 2020 21:34 • DarkBeerMike • Cadangan ini belum dianalisa oleh pemaju:
Consider a checkbox to enable/disable the undo feature. I want it, but other players may feel differently.
Ogos 8 th 2020 20:23 • Aeneas90 • Cadangan ini belum dianalisa oleh pemaju:
Agreed. Undo should be mandatory for all games if hidden information isnt revealed.
Ogos 9 th 2020 9:33 • ExtraPaul • Pemaju berpendapat bahawa ia bukan idea yang baik atau nisbah kos / manfaat terlalu tinggi:
I understand your request.
But "As a rule of thumb, on BGA we advise you to not undo moves." (en.doc.boardgamearena.com/BGA_Undo_policy)
It's the first time I program a game : I don't want to complexify the code at this time.
Maybe for a futur release...
Meanwhile, a refresh (F5) seems to be a solution.
But "As a rule of thumb, on BGA we advise you to not undo moves." (en.doc.boardgamearena.com/BGA_Undo_policy)
It's the first time I program a game : I don't want to complexify the code at this time.
Maybe for a futur release...
Meanwhile, a refresh (F5) seems to be a solution.
Ogos 9 th 2020 16:35 • Aeneas90 • Pemaju berpendapat bahawa ia bukan idea yang baik atau nisbah kos / manfaat terlalu tinggi:
Rejected the most upvoted issue because "its my first time and its too hard" doesnt fill me with confidence here. Perhaps see if there's a more experienced dev that can assist.
Ogos 9 th 2020 16:46 • ExtraPaul • Pemaju berpendapat bahawa ia bukan idea yang baik atau nisbah kos / manfaat terlalu tinggi:
I correct my point of view : it's not "to hard", but "too dangerous".
I don't want to loose control of the programming by implementing a not recommended functionnality.
But I keep in mind this request : I hope that players don't expect a 100% perfect game in the first release.
I don't want to loose control of the programming by implementing a not recommended functionnality.
But I keep in mind this request : I hope that players don't expect a 100% perfect game in the first release.
Ogos 10 th 2020 5:57 • ExtraPaul • Pemaju berpendapat bahawa ia bukan idea yang baik atau nisbah kos / manfaat terlalu tinggi:
The request #22149 ask to change worker tile place on the board, then confirm.
An UNDO would be easy to program for this state.
But an UNDO on tile actions is very inconvinient : on each action click, animations are launched, scores are updated, notifications are written, database is updated and all players view action in real time.
An UNDO would be easy to program for this state.
But an UNDO on tile actions is very inconvinient : on each action click, animations are launched, scores are updated, notifications are written, database is updated and all players view action in real time.
Ogos 14 th 2020 0:54 • MoonGoyal • Pemaju berpendapat bahawa ia bukan idea yang baik atau nisbah kos / manfaat terlalu tinggi:
I agree. Many games need this feature
Ogos 14 th 2020 13:59 • paramesis • Pemaju berpendapat bahawa ia bukan idea yang baik atau nisbah kos / manfaat terlalu tinggi:
An Undo action or confirm step is very frequently requested for adaptations where it doesn't exist, and I frequently see developers lean on the guidelines as an authoritative answer to every situation. Any experienced designer will tell you there is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all answer. The entire intent of guidelines is to make better adaptations, and it is on the developer to decide where that line is.
Are players having to click confirm buttons too many times?
Are players intentionally playing bad moves or moving pieces around in order to "think"?
Are players frustrated that the interface wouldn't let them take the turn that they wanted to take because they made one misclick? (definitely sounds like the case here).
Are players having to click confirm buttons too many times?
Are players intentionally playing bad moves or moving pieces around in order to "think"?
Are players frustrated that the interface wouldn't let them take the turn that they wanted to take because they made one misclick? (definitely sounds like the case here).
Ogos 14 th 2020 16:46 • ExtraPaul • Pemaju ingin maklumat lanjut mengenai cadangan ini:
Hello Paramesis.
Imagine that I have four jungle actions to carry out around my worker tile 1-1-1-1 :
- Get 2 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 2 gold
- Get 1 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 4 gold
I can click on any action in any order. Each action update score and notify other players about what's happen.
How the undo must be managed ?
If I get 2 cacao, sale 1 for 2 gold... oh no, mistake, I wanted sale for 4 gold -> Undo.
Then, Undo become available for my first action too ?
What others players see ? Gold back to the tile and score decrease ?
Imagine that I have four jungle actions to carry out around my worker tile 1-1-1-1 :
- Get 2 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 2 gold
- Get 1 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 4 gold
I can click on any action in any order. Each action update score and notify other players about what's happen.
How the undo must be managed ?
If I get 2 cacao, sale 1 for 2 gold... oh no, mistake, I wanted sale for 4 gold -> Undo.
Then, Undo become available for my first action too ?
What others players see ? Gold back to the tile and score decrease ?
Ogos 14 th 2020 17:16 • paramesis • Pemaju ingin maklumat lanjut mengenai cadangan ini:
There are a few ways you could go about this, but the simplest to implement and the one I would recommend would be database undo.
en.doc.boardgamearena.com/Main_game_logic:_yourgamename.game.php#Undo_moves
This would undo your entire turn. Canceled notification log items would disappear and there would only be one item saying "<player> cancels their move". The guidelines do mention that this is a heavy-handed solution because it saves and restores the entire table's data, but it is consistent with how many other games are implementing undo.
A more difficult to implement alternative would be an incremental undo ("player undoes worker action"). This would require storing individual actions taken this turn in the database in some way and creating a coherent way to represent undo on the client side. This is how I implemented incremental undo for tile placement in Off the Rails, but it does have the disadvantage you mention of creating a log entry for every action that is done and undone.
en.doc.boardgamearena.com/Main_game_logic:_yourgamename.game.php#Undo_moves
This would undo your entire turn. Canceled notification log items would disappear and there would only be one item saying "<player> cancels their move". The guidelines do mention that this is a heavy-handed solution because it saves and restores the entire table's data, but it is consistent with how many other games are implementing undo.
A more difficult to implement alternative would be an incremental undo ("player undoes worker action"). This would require storing individual actions taken this turn in the database in some way and creating a coherent way to represent undo on the client side. This is how I implemented incremental undo for tile placement in Off the Rails, but it does have the disadvantage you mention of creating a log entry for every action that is done and undone.
Ogos 15 th 2020 10:04 • ExtraPaul • Pemaju bersetuju bahawa ia adalah idea yang baik dan berhasrat untuk mengatasinya:
Thank you for this explanation.
I note that an Undo for the whole turn of actions is a way, but :
- a confirm button is thus necessary at the end;
- this state of the game is in multi player mode : the undo database will be for all players ?
- I must fire notifications to remove cacao fruits in the player zone;
I'm considering this Undo for the future, when I'll be more "veteran" with BGA programming.
This is a big refactoring.
I note that an Undo for the whole turn of actions is a way, but :
- a confirm button is thus necessary at the end;
- this state of the game is in multi player mode : the undo database will be for all players ?
- I must fire notifications to remove cacao fruits in the player zone;
I'm considering this Undo for the future, when I'll be more "veteran" with BGA programming.
This is a big refactoring.
Ogos 15 th 2020 15:20 • paramesis • Pemaju bersetuju bahawa ia adalah idea yang baik dan berhasrat untuk mengatasinya:
The basic implementation of database undo actually only requires a few lines of code.
$this->undoSavePoint(); at the beginning of a single player's turn, an undo button added to the action bar (possibly with a modal confirmation), an undo action added to action.php and added as a possible action to the state, and $this->undoRestorePoint(); if the user takes the undo action. See La Granja, Teotihuacan, and Off the Rails (mine) for publicly accessible precedents.
I do not believe an end turn button violates the intent of the BGA guidelines for multi-step turns. I have written a defense of this position on the forums here: boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16770
Of course, every game is different, and if an end turn button feels like too much of an extra step, you could investigate the "request undo" checkbox precedent established in Teotihuacan. This would require refactoring to add an extra state, or to add an extra argument to each player action.
database undo is not supported in multiactiveplayer states. There can be only one persistent active player between any two points where undoSavePoint and undoRestorePoint are called. From my understanding of this game, it seems pretty rare that the multipleactiveplayer state would require multiple actions, so you'd probably be fine without an undo here. If it feels like it does need an Undo to be consistent, it might be better to cycle through players in a single action. La Granja has a game option for this, but that might be overkill here.
No notifications are necessary to restore the game state. undoRestorePoint automatically handles this :)
$this->undoSavePoint(); at the beginning of a single player's turn, an undo button added to the action bar (possibly with a modal confirmation), an undo action added to action.php and added as a possible action to the state, and $this->undoRestorePoint(); if the user takes the undo action. See La Granja, Teotihuacan, and Off the Rails (mine) for publicly accessible precedents.
I do not believe an end turn button violates the intent of the BGA guidelines for multi-step turns. I have written a defense of this position on the forums here: boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16770
Of course, every game is different, and if an end turn button feels like too much of an extra step, you could investigate the "request undo" checkbox precedent established in Teotihuacan. This would require refactoring to add an extra state, or to add an extra argument to each player action.
database undo is not supported in multiactiveplayer states. There can be only one persistent active player between any two points where undoSavePoint and undoRestorePoint are called. From my understanding of this game, it seems pretty rare that the multipleactiveplayer state would require multiple actions, so you'd probably be fine without an undo here. If it feels like it does need an Undo to be consistent, it might be better to cycle through players in a single action. La Granja has a game option for this, but that might be overkill here.
No notifications are necessary to restore the game state. undoRestorePoint automatically handles this :)
Ogos 15 th 2020 15:21 • paramesis • Pemaju bersetuju bahawa ia adalah idea yang baik dan berhasrat untuk mengatasinya:
I forgot to add that rolling out database undo will break games in progress, so it's best to do that now while it's in Alpha.
Ogos 25 th 2020 15:58 • iris1 • Pemaju bersetuju bahawa ia adalah idea yang baik dan berhasrat untuk mengatasinya:
Wish it was like in carcassonne 3 tiles in hand. Be able to change mind about which of the three tiles and try them out on the before you confirm. Then I guess the undo would be not necessary.
Sep 14 th 2020 3:39 • razzinplant • Pemaju bersetuju bahawa ia adalah idea yang baik dan berhasrat untuk mengatasinya:
An undo button when placing a tile would be nice so before you confirm placement you can choose a different tile.
Sep 24 th 2020 10:32 • NexusHorizon • Pemaju bersetuju bahawa ia adalah idea yang baik dan berhasrat untuk mengatasinya:
I think that would be enough and a more practical solution (for players and developer) to have the ability to change the worker tile just before choosing the jungle tile
Sep 24 th 2020 11:49 • ExtraPaul • Pemaju bersetuju bahawa ia adalah idea yang baik dan berhasrat untuk mengatasinya:
Yes, and this iidea is here : boardgamearena.com/bug?id=24585
Sep 28 th 2020 21:55 • ExtraPaul • Pemaju berpendapat bahawa ia bukan idea yang baik atau nisbah kos / manfaat terlalu tinggi:
"I think that would be enough and a more practical solution (for players and developer) to have the ability to change the worker tile just before choosing the jungle tile"
This is implement is this new release version 200928-2118.
I reject the idea to program an undo on a multi players state : this is overkill and reduces the flow of the game.
This is implement is this new release version 200928-2118.
I reject the idea to program an undo on a multi players state : this is overkill and reduces the flow of the game.
Tambah sesuatu untuk laporan ini
Sila tambahkan di sini apa-apa yang kelihatan relevan untuk menghasilkan semula bug ini atau memahami cadangan anda:
- ID meja yang lain / gerakkan ID
- Adakah F5 meyelesaikan masalah ity?
- Adapah masalah itu berlaku beberapa kali? Selalu? Sekali-sekala?
- Sekiranya anda ada screenshot bug ini (amalan yang baik), anda boleh gunakan Imgur.com untuk muatnaik dan copy/paste pautan itu di sini.
Tukar status laporan kepada:
bug?id=22152
